Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

Taniquetil wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 3:11 PM
DarkDavion wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 3:02 PM
Hey Tani I respect you, but I must show you a video where Therabbin let me with 15% just with pa+stun and I haven't RA (I mean when the stun ended I was left with 15% hp) ... I can't see how to win if me and him are without RA's... And I think I can use my class in a decent way, maybe the 50/50 spec doesn't help vs assassins but.. Come on from 100% to 15..

Tnx. I believe, you, but if you Get PA/CD'd without Purge, i feel like that's one of those fights you should probably be losing, the aim should be to not be gettting perfed first of all.

- dont get PA'd
- Numb before you get CD'd
- hope for a block/parry on it just making sure you face the attack quick enough.


If you're both without RA's tthen yeah a numb is enough tto stp him stunning you and then you can wait to slam after the fact.
U right bud, but the assassins choose when start the fight so very often they can start with PA, specially when u are in tight places like bridges etc..

Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

It's quite easy to anticipate an attack since there aren't many spots where assassins lurk. Also there will always be the odd situation where everything's going against you and you'll be left at 15% health. This cannot be the ground for balancing. There's the habit that dumping on others is attributed to one's own skill and getting smashed is a balancing issue.

As a hunter I of course have difficulties in melee such that I sometimes loose against brehon assassins. But then I can also win against baruns without IP.

Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

DarkDavion wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 9:17 AM
Hedien wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 6:20 AM
I see a lot of difference in skill out there when solo fighting infi/ns:
- Low rank who do not have VIPER.
- Unexperienced players who do not apply consistently dots via weapon switch.
- And the high RR, maxed out viper stealthers who switch weapons.

I am going to assume the 3rd case for the below.

Let's say I play a thane, 8L against those 8L-11L stealthers, 5 scenario:
- No RA up on both sides, I lose. Poison damage, debuff s/c, disease is just too hard hitting - especially if they succeed their engage.
- Purge up on both sides. Same as above due to reapply without immune mechanism, while the stealther will be immune slam.
- Purge up only on stealther side. I lose - hard. (often seing high rr stealther taking purge 5)
- All RA up on all side, but no vanish. I can win, but nowhere guaranteed. (I don't want to side strafe exploit to apply snare)
- All RA up on all side, vanish. I probably lose due to low hp and disease followed by re-engage, esp if the stealth used FA.

The reason for the above loss is linked to VIPER. The damage is very high and passive so 100% uptime.
Another reason is immunity mechanism, while it can be purged, only stun is generating immune. Rendering purge power much stronger on infi/ns than on solo visi.
IP is 15 min cooldown.

Given the 40% of stealth population, encountering a 9L+ stealther as solo visi is very frequent.
So I find myself doing the following:
- Wait 15 min, try and go out.
- Encounter solo stealth (assume no add) - scenario #3 or 4 occurs.
- Go back to keep. Wait 15 min. Play another game.
- Start again.

Well, this sucks. I want to go out all the time as solo to enjoy the game continuously. But due to the above mechanisms I have observed, I cannot or I would be feeding and getting frustrated. At the end it is related to relative active vs passive RA power and cooldown. With all my active RA, I am at par with someone mainly using passive. This is not right.

Then there is the "natural" enemy class design. Indeed, the stealther classes have significant advantage against cloth. They are their natural enemies.
My issue is, I don't see obvious stealther natural enemies. I agree with OP that, in the spirit of class design, infil/ns should be at a disadvantage against a tank.

Once again, my tests are based on Thane... which without the style proc implemented is underpowered. (especially if you don't side snare straffe to leverage your st)
But I feel there is some truth in this post and that melee stealthers are a bit too strong now at same skill/RR.

All people saying "haha you are not a true soloer so stfu" are just failing to conceptualize and instead resort to personal attacks. Just to be ignored...

Sat/Faturday.
I mostly play solo and duo and I fully agree with you, is 100% true and I am a Champ. Now champs got nerfed and is even worse but without RA on vs a high rank infi was basically the same.
What I don't get is why assassins have advantage 1vs1 vs ALL classes, they should have advantage vs casters, archers and disadvantage vs tanks. This doesn't mean that they should lose but maybe making viper an active 15min RA should be good. They must use every RA for get advantage vs a tank or something like that.
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Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

Taniquetil wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 2:42 PM
Astaa wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 12:27 PM
Numb works more than you would think, I got someone with it last night (I actually fat fingered it but that's besides the point!) I try to use the spear parry reactive which has a stun then wait for immunity timer before slamming but getting enemy purge out the way early can be a benefit and unless stunned there is no point blowing purge vs a decent assassin either because you just get re-poisoned anyway, it all depends on the class you are fighting and the situation.

I'm actually thinking about dropping slam altogether and dumping the points into 50 parry, slam is a lot of points to spend on a slightly longer stun. I'm rusty AF though so struggling to get positionals off after a reactive stun atm.

Not saying numb doesnt work, but it's too cute of a style most of the time, other styles put more pressure on a decision to purge or not, that causes a difficult choice. Numb and slam both have a very straightforward answer.

But also I feel like you're not really complaining about sin strength either? You said you do well, whilst I dont know your toon you also seemed to comment enjoying our fights, so, im sure i probably did too, fought a few strong lowbie heros lately <3

Anyway:

Proof tanks of all flavours can beat a wide variety of assasins, often multiple at once:
Valewalker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRBEPsSC-E

- 1st fight vs 3 stealthers
- Fightts a RR11 SB without a single active style
-16:50 vs a inf, easy clap.
-17min vs a r8 inf, purge only both sides

Thane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DzCRgcwMRo

-2 mins in beats a NS grouped with a bard...

Thane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUwdQBmCGvw

- First two fights, wins 2v1 both times vs good assassins..
- The fight at 7min16 sec is insane play, many thanes would've dumped ST on the NS immediately.

Reaver RR2-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdO7lzjY0jg

- flexing at RR2-4... Smashes people

Jackle - Merc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWBhDIcLfig

- Beats multiple sneaks

It's Davote, nah, my only real issue with assassins is the disease duration, there is no reason for it to be so long.
Pagan Death Cult

Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

Astaa wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 6:50 PM
Taniquetil wrote:
Sat 28 Nov 2020 2:42 PM
But also I feel like you're not really complaining about sin strength either? You said you do well

It's Davote, nah, my only real issue with assassins is the disease duration, there is no reason for it to be so long.

Agree, interesting at RR5 as a hero you're doing fine vs Assassins
Tani - NS- RR11 - 62% Solokills
Bellelle- RR8 Infil- 75% Solokills
Tanii- RR4 Shadowblade- Forged in the Proving Grounds. Work in progress

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Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

Well, the only ones I have real trouble with are those much higher RR than me, so it stands to reason that I ought to struggle but if a heavy tank is constantly losing vs ~equal RR assassins then they should have a rethink

That will change as I gain RR ofc, though that will probably be a long and painful road as a visi, not sure I have the energy for it really

With the changes going in on Monday I might just zerg surf a couple more levels. A solo visi needs to be able to take on 2 or 3 enemies and come away with something, I just can't do that atm.
Pagan Death Cult

Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

I looked at the Thane videos, just to see if I could learn how to play better.

What I saw was:
- Much lower ranks than nowadays. Meaning very different purging behavior and potential viper power, and it shows in both video, enemies just don't purge.
- Never casting Thane on stunned solo targets, which is not the way to go if you want to maximize your dps output: Slam -> Cast x3 (pref under debuff) -> finish with 2hander style. These Thane were glorified warrior players that weren't leveraging the debuff energy proc to its potential...
- Enemies losing 40-50% hp in one single 2hander hit. I mean... 30% on a revenge 2h reactive style, sure. 50% like I saw in Fayte/Ledri video... no.
- Ledri video, the first few fights had so much crossing.. it was simply not the playstyle I am looking for.

My perception based on the above is, these videos are far from representative.

Sat/Faturday.
Saturday - Reaver / Faturday - Thane

Re: Assassin need some kind of nerf

Hedien wrote:
Sun 29 Nov 2020 1:31 AM
I looked at the Thane videos, just to see if I could learn how to play better.

What I saw was:
- Much lower ranks than nowadays. Meaning very different purging behavior and potential viper power, and it shows in both video, enemies just don't purge.
- Never casting Thane on stunned solo targets, which is not the way to go if you want to maximize your dps output: Slam -> Cast x3 (pref under debuff) -> finish with 2hander style. These Thane were glorified warrior players that weren't leveraging the debuff energy proc to its potential...
- Enemies losing 40-50% hp in one single 2hander hit. I mean... 30% on a revenge 2h reactive style, sure. 50% like I saw in Fayte/Ledri video... no.
- Ledri video, the first few fights had so much crossing.. it was simply not the playstyle I am looking for.

My perception based on the above is, these videos are far from representative.

Sat/Faturday.

Can probably look for some other clips, these were just them showing the ability to take on multiple sneaks at once or interesting video clips, and yeah you’re right the %’s are maybe off as theyre before the hp changes, but given tanks benefitted more than sins for that its more of a fight extender than a balance changer.

In order to get to these clips, trust me, they needed to be able to dispose of sins 1v1 with relative ease. They both always hit me hard AF and were able to go toe to toe. Guarantee if they came back, although Fayte cant 😖, they’d perform just as well, theyre leaning on different levers. A good NS wont let you leverage that energy debuff 1v1. Once youre in that fight, you’re in it.

Re High RR - Yeah the landscapes changed and there are more high RR of everything now, it’s an uphill battle for everyone, doesnt mean sins need a nerf for being higher RR. Bit of a moot point.
Tani - NS- RR11 - 62% Solokills
Bellelle- RR8 Infil- 75% Solokills
Tanii- RR4 Shadowblade- Forged in the Proving Grounds. Work in progress

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AGAINST ALL ODDS - Nightshade/Infil Montage

BLADE - Tani - Nightshade/Infil Montage

Tani - REAPER

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