Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

wrote: I am not asking for a Champ nerf, I am asking current champ players (and Devs) if this Champion version is the one you want and you’re happy to absolutely destroy meleers and struggles-ish in other areas (getting groups, siege, and Vs casters)...

The reason why i created the thread is because i personally play a champ and it is too strong at RR4 even tho it has 2 counters, casters and assassins.

What i say is the one counter = assassins aren't able to perform as a counter at high rr, because the champion has 2 much RAdump potential.
It will be an about even fight if champ has static and fa (and woc, which is abyssmal weak with the hp changes) but no IP.

I am unable to kill the best high rr assassins with my RR4 champ, but i can already kill RR8-10 assassins if they miss pa/backstab at more than 50% chance, if they don't purge.

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

From my experience playing vs Ferboten and with him, i feel like champ in small/8 is in a pretty healthy shape and i don't know if we want to have champs get stoicism, but in the end why not.

If we increase the curve of debuff to be stronger at higher enemy stat values and weaker at lower enemy stat values champ gets weakened in 1v1 and strengthened in 8v8.

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

wrote: Off the top of my head:

WS/con poison here instead of str/con
Dodger RA Removal
Huge Reflex RA Nerf.

All effect solo friar not group.

@ Friar topic: friars are more rock/paper/scissor than some other classes. My 7L5 BM can't beat a well played rr4 friar, but my RR4 champ can beat a RR10 friar.

If you play friar you have to accept, that you have many strong and many weak matchups and only a few balanced ones (assassins and ??)

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

Nephamael wrote:
Tue 30 Jun 2020 7:56 PM
wrote: Off the top of my head:

WS/con poison here instead of str/con
Dodger RA Removal
Huge Reflex RA Nerf.

All effect solo friar not group.

@ Friar topic: friars are more rock/paper/scissor than some other classes. My 7L5 BM can't beat a well played rr4 friar, but my RR4 champ can beat a RR10 friar.

If you play friar you have to accept, that you have many strong and many weak matchups and only a few balanced ones (assassins and ??)

Honestly, I generally do pretty well on my friar against Skalds. rr4 friar has beaten numerous rr10 skalds, but yeah there's some really bad matchups as well.
-Imadoctor 8l2 druid

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

Blitze wrote:
Mon 29 Jun 2020 10:20 AM
Friars were nerfed in an area they were already great at... 1v1s and specifically sneak killing. they were buffed elsewhere and overall Friars are better off for it.

I am not asking for a Champ nerf, I am asking current champ players (and Devs) if this Champion version is the one you want and you’re happy to absolutely destroy meleers and struggles-ish in other areas (getting groups, siege, and Vs casters)...

[To be honest, prior to the reflex nerf I didn’t want friars “balanced” across areas of the game and wanted them to continue to excel at 1v1s. As I had minimal interest in buffing Rejuv so Friars could group. Looking back, I am glad I was ignored and now
plenty more Friars are in the frontiers.]

Are champs really that easy for casters to kill? Its not like champs have to fight enchanters with castable stuns, self debuffs and pet with casting snares. I personally haven't played one in big boy rvr so I would love to get a response. The insta's for interrupting and insta snare make it appear easier for champs to kill a caster than many of the other tankier classes from the other realms. When a champ RA dumped on my cabby solo, I got wrecked.

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

Blitze wrote:
Sun 28 Jun 2020 1:02 AM
Champions are absolute 1v1 beasts and rr2 champs easily beat my rr7 friar, anything above rr4 makes the fight a walkover. This wasn’t the case on live, or uthgard 1/2.

Let’s disregard the active toys. ST, IP, WoC which are good solo RAs.

It all comes down to their main character feature....Their debuffs are huge. Going from 310dex to 160dex is massive. I had more Dex that that at level 20 think.
Even without dex debuff they still easily kill me with the str/con taking 25% of my max HP and the haste debuff making me super-slowmo and reflex attack a lot less.

Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

To be fair about anything can beat a friar 1v1.

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

Nephamael wrote:
Tue 30 Jun 2020 7:49 PM
wrote: I am not asking for a Champ nerf, I am asking current champ players (and Devs) if this Champion version is the one you want and you’re happy to absolutely destroy meleers and struggles-ish in other areas (getting groups, siege, and Vs casters)...

The reason why i created the thread is because i personally play a champ and it is too strong at RR4 even tho it has 2 counters, casters and assassins.

What i say is the one counter = assassins aren't able to perform as a counter at high rr, because the champion has 2 much RAdump potential.
It will be an about even fight if champ has static and fa (and woc, which is abyssmal weak with the hp changes) but no IP.

I am unable to kill the best high rr assassins with my RR4 champ, but i can already kill RR8-10 assassins if they miss pa/backstab at more than 50% chance, if they don't purge.

If you exclude support specs that cant 1v1 their way out of a paper sack... casters and assassins would basically be half the roster... winning vs half the roster and losing vs half the roster sounds pretty balanced to me...

The only thing that puts Champ above a Reaver for 1v1 really is the ST stun reset. ST is the issue not the champ. I mean can you imagine how busted Reavers would be if they had ST?

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

Casters aren’t that common as soloers due to assassins having their life.
But Generally, casters seems able to trash melees, especially ones without numerous rupts and a snare. Champs (and reavs) deffo have more chance than most (cept skald/mini).

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

wrote: Casters aren’t that common as soloers due to assassins having their life.

the PvP zone has it's rotations - people play tons of champs/mercs, casters appear, people logg their assassins, the casters logg melees again :p

All casters can beat a champ, but the champ can fight back better than some other melees without spells. But champ is still free RPs to any kite caster like cabba/eld/ench/sm/sorc/bd/necro, even a wiz or rm can kite a champ if he plays it well.

Re: To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

wrote: If you exclude support specs that cant 1v1 their way out of a paper sack... casters and assassins would basically be half the roster... winning vs half the roster and losing vs half the roster sounds pretty balanced to me...

The only thing that puts Champ above a Reaver for 1v1 really is the ST stun reset. ST is the issue not the champ. I mean can you imagine how busted Reavers would be if they had ST?

Yes it's true, if assassins get to be the counter they can be vs champs by removing the champ's ability to spec IP we might have a balance again.

Static can't be removed from champ cause its a very important RA for castergrp 8v8 (and the only reason such a grp would grp a champ over a hero or bm for peel).

And reavers levi dps is far far above a champ's or thane's dps potential