Re: PvE Changes

Here are my thoughts on these proposed changes and this is coming from someone who has only been on the server for a week. I'm new to this server but not new to DAoC. I started a deathsight necro to have a PvE farm character. Leveling from 1-50 using XP item camps was extremely fast but necro has no downtime at all. My current farming is going to a camp and salvaging almost everything that drops. I have already got salvaging skills to lgm and next time I play I'm going to finish raising spellcrafting to lgm only about 50 points to go. I like the idea of these changes to encourage grouping. Once I roll my rvr character it would be nice to level up in a group. As long as the personal loot amount stays about the same or maybe even higher utility rewards for event completions I think these changes won't hurt the solo salvagers that much. Can group when you want and salvage your stuff or just rotate on some of blue/yellow events solo.

I think having higher utility items as event rewards would be a great idea. Maybe also do a XP boost per player where having full groups would be wanted regardless of class makeup. For example having a full group of any random composition would be better then doing an event with 4 people but having perfect group setup. This would promote grouping for XP in a big way.

Another idea would be some kind of gold earned per event completion that would maybe help with a lot of the static camp fears. Solo players could still do blue/yellow events if they didn't want to group.

TLDR. I like how this idea promotes grouping at any level and if done right will be a great change. As long there is still plenty of personal loot drops for salvaging or some kind of income bonus per event I think income will be ok.

Re: PvE Changes

Wyndaz wrote:
Wed 16 Jun 2021 3:57 AM
Here are my thoughts on these proposed changes and this is coming from someone who has only been on the server for a week. I'm new to this server but not new to DAoC. I started a deathsight necro to have a PvE farm character. Leveling from 1-50 using XP item camps was extremely fast but necro has no downtime at all. My current farming is going to a camp and salvaging almost everything that drops. I have already got salvaging skills to lgm and next time I play I'm going to finish raising spellcrafting to lgm only about 50 points to go. I like the idea of these changes to encourage grouping. Once I roll my rvr character it would be nice to level up in a group. As long as the personal loot amount stays about the same or maybe even higher utility rewards for event completions I think these changes won't hurt the solo salvagers that much. Can group when you want and salvage your stuff or just rotate on some of blue/yellow events solo.

I think having higher utility items as event rewards would be a great idea. Maybe also do a XP boost per player where having full groups would be wanted regardless of class makeup. For example having a full group of any random composition would be better then doing an event with 4 people but having perfect group setup. This would promote grouping for XP in a big way.

Another idea would be some kind of gold earned per event completion that would maybe help with a lot of the static camp fears. Solo players could still do blue/yellow events if they didn't want to group.

TLDR. I like how this idea promotes grouping at any level and if done right will be a great change. As long there is still plenty of personal loot drops for salvaging or some kind of income bonus per event I think income will be ok.
Honestly
Besides a few classes, soling to 50 is relatively painless and not that much slower.
Important….buff pots and tinders
Pick the correct mob for max damage and bonus xp

Re: PvE Changes

I thought about the event system, how to actually make it work and giving an example:



So if you are level 1-8 or you can join autogroups at Humberton Village or Adribard's Retreat or Prydwen Bridge or in SI at Caer Gothwaite Harbor. [For ALB]
[SYSTEM]
NPC has an aura that serves as a TRIGGER, this Aura can be shared with anybody in a 1000 unit RANGE.
The NPC is far enough away so that no other Ally is within 1000 units.
If the number of unit that has this NPC's trigger aura is more than 1 then he associate to the person or groupleader and will start his pathing (small dotted line)
If the NPC dies he will respawn in the next 5 minute window.
If the NPC is not dead, then it checks every 1 minute if there is still somebody in the aura, otherwise he will stay in place for maximum 1 minute or die.
Upon Reaching a checkpoint (red heavy line) he will handout reward to the group of the person he is tied to, and then wait up to 5 minutes for a call to continue, if not triggered then he will die.
Rince Repeat until last checkpoint.
At last checkpoint, he will stay up to 5minutes to hand-out reward (item) and Exp to the group members he is tied to.
[END]

In this example, the group has chosen Humberton Village/Castle:
They have 4 possible scenarios to choose from:
1- Bottom Left: Is the Wolf Cloak Scenario.
Reward after completion: Beowolf Cloak (low stat, brown collar cloak) & chance at Wolf Remains (boss)
This scenario would allow you to kill animals and humanoids.
Difficulty [>=4 people, 1 healer, 1 CC, 1 taunter]
Step 1: wolves in forest behind the castle, each kill gives wolf fur, packs of 3 blue wolves, 3 times in a row without stop.
Step 2: bears in hills, each kill gives bear fur, 5 times 1 orange bear without stop
Step 3: dwarven workers in the pit, each kill gives gems, 1 red 1 orange 1 yellow, twice
Step 4: dwarven guard closer to the boss, each kill gives runes, 2 red twice
Step 5: Wolf Boss, 1 purple with dot
2- Bottom right: Is the Evil Monk Scenario
Reward after completion: Leather Robe (Friar Epic Skin, low stats, 20 AF)
This scenario would allow you to kill undeads and demons.
Difficulty [>=4 person, 1 healer, 1 CC, 1 taunter]
3- Top Left: Is the Giant village scenario
Reward: 1hour exp buff (not pot, only once)
This scenario would allow you to kill giants and magical.
Difficulty [>= 1 person] single blue to single yellow
4- Top right: Is the frog in the well scenario
Reward: 50 gold (only once)
This scenario would allow you to kill reptiles, and draconic
Difficulty [>= 1 person]

Have to tweak so that 2 solo scenario grant you level 8.
Or 1 grouped scenario grants you level 8.
Then move on to one of the 9-14 zone, with other scenarios.
1% contribute 90%

Re: PvE Changes

Centenario wrote:
Wed 16 Jun 2021 4:36 PM
I thought about the event system, how to actually make it work and giving an example

Aside from the obvious issue of having a specific level example and a matching reward and being a lot more quest like, the general idea of having events spanning multiple stages that lead somewhere / have a theme and have a conclusion is the ideal that some of these events will eventually turn into.
However, that won't be the initial release and it's unlikely that even a majority of these public events would ever be integrated into something cohesive like that, much less anytime soon.

Re: PvE Changes

Centenario wrote:
Wed 16 Jun 2021 4:36 PM
I thought about the event system, how to actually make it work and giving an example:



So if you are level 1-8 or you can join autogroups at Humberton Village or Adribard's Retreat or Prydwen Bridge or in SI at Caer Gothwaite Harbor. [For ALB]
[SYSTEM]
NPC has an aura that serves as a TRIGGER, this Aura can be shared with anybody in a 1000 unit RANGE.
The NPC is far enough away so that no other Ally is within 1000 units.
If the number of unit that has this NPC's trigger aura is more than 1 then he associate to the person or groupleader and will start his pathing (small dotted line)
If the NPC dies he will respawn in the next 5 minute window.
If the NPC is not dead, then it checks every 1 minute if there is still somebody in the aura, otherwise he will stay in place for maximum 1 minute or die.
Upon Reaching a checkpoint (red heavy line) he will handout reward to the group of the person he is tied to, and then wait up to 5 minutes for a call to continue, if not triggered then he will die.
Rince Repeat until last checkpoint.
At last checkpoint, he will stay up to 5minutes to hand-out reward (item) and Exp to the group members he is tied to.
[END]

In this example, the group has chosen Humberton Village/Castle:
They have 4 possible scenarios to choose from:
1- Bottom Left: Is the Wolf Cloak Scenario.
Reward after completion: Beowolf Cloak (low stat, brown collar cloak) & chance at Wolf Remains (boss)
This scenario would allow you to kill animals and humanoids.
Difficulty [>=4 people, 1 healer, 1 CC, 1 taunter]
Step 1: wolves in forest behind the castle, each kill gives wolf fur, packs of 3 blue wolves, 3 times in a row without stop.
Step 2: bears in hills, each kill gives bear fur, 5 times 1 orange bear without stop
Step 3: dwarven workers in the pit, each kill gives gems, 1 red 1 orange 1 yellow, twice
Step 4: dwarven guard closer to the boss, each kill gives runes, 2 red twice
Step 5: Wolf Boss, 1 purple with dot
2- Bottom right: Is the Evil Monk Scenario
Reward after completion: Leather Robe (Friar Epic Skin, low stats, 20 AF)
This scenario would allow you to kill undeads and demons.
Difficulty [>=4 person, 1 healer, 1 CC, 1 taunter]
3- Top Left: Is the Giant village scenario
Reward: 1hour exp buff (not pot, only once)
This scenario would allow you to kill giants and magical.
Difficulty [>= 1 person] single blue to single yellow
4- Top right: Is the frog in the well scenario
Reward: 50 gold (only once)
This scenario would allow you to kill reptiles, and draconic
Difficulty [>= 1 person]

Have to tweak so that 2 solo scenario grant you level 8.
Or 1 grouped scenario grants you level 8.
Then move on to one of the 9-14 zone, with other scenarios.
Wasn’t the warhammer system like this ?

Re: PvE Changes

I like the direction this is going. Be interesting to see how it can give incentive for the outlying regions that are typically more advanced/epic but take longer to get to. Perhaps greater task rewards, loot, feathers, etc in those places to reward players for adventuring way out.

Re: PvE Changes

Bradekes wrote:
Mon 14 Jun 2021 8:27 PM
HoT would be either extremely worth it or not at all depending if you're using high level hot in a low level group or not worth at all if you're using low level hot in high level group. That is why I wondered if they would scale. If not it could be abused. Not really a huge concern I think because it's just pve. Mid might complain as they have no hot only regen though.

HoTs and Pets (no buff cap) are as always the main contenders to "abuse" something. Has nothing to do with the PvE overhaul by itself. This has always been true, no matter the patch level.

HoT/Frigg not being a "Heal", so not being scaled, while everything else around it is.
Pets with higher tier buffs vs scaled Enemys.

Or in general:
Everything that can "tank" scaled damage (player/pet), is easier to maintain, than a lvl50 version of it.
Thanks to the Red HoTs/Friggs not being scaled accordingly, they easily out-value any scaled (down) damage.
But that only works against scaled NPCs, as EPIC encounters (Feather NPCs) are still LVL based.

What is the difference to before the change?
Now you can be in the same Grp while doing it. And that's it.

Re: PvE Changes

After testing a couple potential variants on how exactly the damage scaling will work, this is what seems to work best:
We set all npcs to a level and with the stats appropriate against a level 50 player, e. g. if we want a low blue mob it will be set to 41/42 and with the appropriate stats.

In case of level 50 players no scaling at all happens.

When a level 1 player attacks this mob now, the mob is simulated to be actually blue for him which would also include scaling the stats accordingly. In case of a level 1 player, our blue mob would be simulated to be level 0, The resulting damage is then multiplied by (actual mob hp divided by simulated mob hp) so that a level 1 player would still do his ~33% damage with a single hit against a blue mob.

That means the actual damage looks something like this (player here is level 1 and naked / starter staff, the dragonfly is a naturally level 0 mob, the lesser telamon in this case is actually level 43 and set to be blue for scaling and hence scaled to level 0):




This would obviously be a rather jarring experience to see these high numbers from the get go and hence we're going to lie a bit. We'll just show damage done against the simulated mob while using the actual / scaled damage for participation and aggro purposes. That basically means that unless you are grouped with many different levels and actively talk about your damage you wouldn't even notice anything strange. But once you start talking you could have something like:
"How much damage are you guys doing? I'm doing around 100 per swing, that's about 10% mob hp"
"I'm doing 6 damage, that's about 33% mob hp"


The damage taken scaling will be very similar: the mob will again be scaled down to your level and then just attack you. This time however we won't scale the damage taken any further, it is what it is. Instead, healing taken will be scaled also with a hp ratio but this time simulating player stats.

Re: PvE Changes

gruenesschaf wrote: This time however we won't scale the damage taken any further, it is what it is.

This part at the end is throwing me off...what would the "even further" scaling be?

Overall the scaling system sounds great and being able to group with ANY player LFG regardless of levels will be really huge for the levelling experience