Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

Currently need race respecs and new templates/weapons for so many different toons. This is going to prohibitively expensive for me time wise to farm for it all.

QQ I know. Serves me right for committing to thrust/Saracen on so many toons.

Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

Hib Pierce styles for classes with only Evade I (champ/hero) should be off parry instead, like was done with Alb thrust for merc/arms/pali styles.
No other weapon line on a class with Evade I has the critical stun style locked behind evade.

Yes some other classes have evade styles and only Evade I, but they are just added damage not as critical as stun.
Tulpa, Tulpin, Tulpion, Tulpamist, Tulpent, Tulpanter..... you get the idea.
Lurikeen Death Cult

Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

Hib Pierce styles for classes with only Evade I (champ/hero) should be off parry instead, like was done with Alb thrust for merc/arms/pali styles.
No other weapon line on a class with Evade I has the critical stun style locked behind evade.

Yes some other classes have evade styles and only Evade I, but they are just added damage not as critical as stun.

Celtic Spear has the same issue with the followup stun sitting in the evade chain.
It would be awesome to move that to a alternative after parry followup. (or just remove the after evade followup and put it as the 2nd option after parry followup)
Xpovoc, Jukaron, Nephamael, Mauril, Lareya, Aideen, Njoro

Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

DJ2000 wrote:
Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:10 PM
Stop your melodrama.

This is a work in progress.
You can't judge a cake if it wasn't even in the oven. Champion flavour-changes are not even "in" yet.

Give feedback on the current revision and wait till a later stage.

Most of the time, if changes move to a wrong direction from the start it would have been better to not change at all. Walking down a wrong way, you´ll have to return AND walk the other way.

I work with what´s on the table. Promises don´t persuade me. I´m not clinging to hope that in some future some of the mistakes made now (!) are corrected. Because then it would have been better to not make them at all, and who´s to tell if future doesn´t hold just more of the same.

This is turning the game upside down, it is shaking the very essence of what constitutes melee classes and why people picked some of them to play. It´s like shuffling spell lines people got used to. Cui bono? Pay attention to what´s in the first version and not re-considered even after feedback and you know why these changes are made in the first place I´m pretty sure I´ll not be the only one to notice and draw conclusions. People have fine senses for who´s to come out as a winner and who´s not with these changes.

Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

There are changes i don't like either. i did point them out and gave out my feedback, for example the Polearms changes, and even suggested changes to the line or the approach (among other things) as well.

Everyone can judge the Devs every decision. Everyone is free to like them or not. Furthermore, everyone can call out things he likes or dislikes.
But at a certain point you have to accept some things:
1. This is not your/mine vision of DaoC. QQ about everything that doesn't fit in your/mine version is pointless.
2. Nonsensical QQ over the same things over and over again will achieve the exact opposite of the intent. It gets ignored after a while.
3. Calling doom upon the server after every change (OF/RA/etc.) gets tiresome after a while. Actually, it has no meaning anyway, as the server was never meant to last forever anyway.
4. If the direction of a server isn't to your liking, then there are always the options to leave, or to compromise and stay. You don't have to accept everything, but you have to accept that you can't change any- or everything.
5. In the first place, the Devs didn't create/open this server to amuse me/you/anyone beside themselves. It was an entirely intrinsic motivation to do so. Players are needed to keep the Server alive, yes. And the joy of having players playing your creation is certainly a thing, but it is not their ulterior motive or Goal, but a condition to keep their work/passion relevant to continue their commitment.
6. Eventually Time, Work, Passion, Motivation, Investment, Expenditures will be a factor. Until then, enjoy your stay or choose to do not. It's up to everyone to decide for themselves.

This, is a style overhaul. They laid out the approach. They announced the desired/possible goal/outcome.
There are windows for player feedback provided by them. There will be several revisions, and also a backup/fallback, if things don't work out. It is not an overnight change.

Is this change really needed or not? Who is to decide? Are you the one to decide if it is? Maybe it doesn't matter who can decide or if it is even needed or not?
Maybe they are doing it for fun? Because they are curious? They are plain just interested in doing it from a technical standpoint? Maybe they are bored with the current status? Or maybe they just don't like how it is currently?
Over 1000s of reasons why someone wants to change/build/cut/plant/wreck something that belongs to them. But the most relevant one is this: Because they can.

Whatever, feel free to be Doom Apostle Nr. 2164.

Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

"Because they can" is neither a good reason nor a good argument. Look at this thread, basically everybody seems to have issues with the style changes to many classes. And all you´re telling me is suck it up or that this is just part 1 of many more to come. In reality, this change to everything, opening this can of worms, breaking so many styles people got used to or which are iconic to a class, is what is creating the need for many more changes in the first place. So: Why? I question the motivation why somebody would so vehemently try to change all styles at once/introduce live styles even risking the health of the server.

Everything you listed are non-arguments. Of course it´s their server (and will stay their server much like Live, Genesis or Uthgard still are the servers of their respective admins), of course they can do whatever they want (that doesn´t mean they have to), of course I can choose to stay or leave. But that´s all unobjective and no argument in this discussion.

And I´ll leave it at that:

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

Check the graph or scroll down to server population health.

Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

In reality, this change to everything, opening this can of worms, breaking so many styles people got used to or which are iconic to a class, is what is creating the need for many more changes in the first place. So: Why?

In fact a style overhaul was needed for several speclines, to make them viable for 8v8 or at all. (Examples: Sword, Axe, Blunt, LW, CD)

The major inherent problem of the current overhaul is deleting tons of
iconic
styles, mostly for solo/small players.

Now instead of joining the Doomsayers there is still a huge opening right now, to simply fix it, by adding every possible
iconic
style back into the overhaul.

I believe this can be done, without altering the obvious aims of the overhaul (no 1 style reactionary or positional stuns, more variety of positionals).

There are tons of styles noone will ever use that can become the classic
iconic
styles that fit into the new concept.
Xpovoc, Jukaron, Nephamael, Mauril, Lareya, Aideen, Njoro

Re: Style Overhaul Attempt 2

There are tons of styles noone ever used that could have become the styles with the effects missing in certain style lines. While barely changing the styles people did use.

There, fixed it for you.