Re: Balance Changes #6

Centenario wrote:
Thu 29 Apr 2021 4:33 PM
Blitze wrote:
Thu 29 Apr 2021 1:00 PM
44thrust Pala is a good peeler
Good peel is back-peel or anytime peel or front-peel.
2-style chain peel with no hit bonus is bad peel.

Good peel is a long duration peel.

And tbh, 90% of melee peeler on phoenix are fuckn bad.
Snaring right after slam is pointless and useless.
Yuva & all the Yuv.

Re: Balance Changes #6

Enchanters with , stun , root, disease, speed, pet, self DD debuff are unkillable by most classes w/o slam Like friars for exampke. They stun you, you puge, than root + disease and finally kite you and kill Easy.

That class was already OP in solo before, now Is a rofl dumb class.

Reconsider those chsnges. Are not balanced.

Re: Balance Changes #6

Honestly it puts chanters up at BD levels of mind numbingly dumb overpoweredness for soloing but thats not what the change is for and I’d guess soloing would be considered acceptable collateral damage at some point.

Re: Balance Changes #6

Irkeno wrote:
Mon 3 May 2021 9:00 AM
Honestly it puts chanters up at BD levels of mind numbingly dumb overpoweredness for soloing but thats not what the change is for and I’d guess soloing would be considered acceptable collateral damage at some point.

I'm assuming comparing Enchanters to BDs is hyperbole, but there is no question that solo play is acceptable collateral damage.

That is to say, visible solo play is acceptable collateral damage. I'm sure assassins are quite pleased at the prospect of a few more people foolishly trying to solo on a caster for a couple of days until they realize how miserable it is with the current solo class distribution.

The devs have stated their main concern is balancing around 8v8 as a baseline. There is no getting around that, and, as much as I disagree with it (and think I can make a convincing case as to why it is a poor decision), it isn't an unreasonable position to take.

As a visible who played through Mythic/EAs attempts to balance around 8 man play on the OG classic servers let me tell you the types of changes the Phoenix team are implementing are far less damaging to solo balance than they could be. Sure getting insta gibbed by small mans with two casters is really stupid, and these Enchanter changes are obviously pretty toxic if you're caught by one in an open area, but at least they aren't trying to cram every class into a DPS role by giving them proc styles. THAT is disruptive to solo play.

I suppose "it could be worse" isn't the best consolation, but man, it could be, and has been, a lot worse.

Re: Balance Changes #6

Magesty wrote:
Tue 4 May 2021 5:08 PM
Irkeno wrote:
Mon 3 May 2021 9:00 AM
Honestly it puts chanters up at BD levels of mind numbingly dumb overpoweredness for soloing but thats not what the change is for and I’d guess soloing would be considered acceptable collateral damage at some point.

I'm assuming comparing Enchanters to BDs is hyperbole, but there is no question that solo play is acceptable collateral damage.

That is to say, visible solo play is acceptable collateral damage. I'm sure assassins are quite pleased at the prospect of a few more people foolishly trying to solo on a caster for a couple of days until they realize how miserable it is with the current solo class distribution.

The devs have stated their main concern is balancing around 8v8 as a baseline. There is no getting around that, and, as much as I disagree with it (and think I can make a convincing case as to why it is a poor decision), it isn't an unreasonable position to take.

As a visible who played through Mythic/EAs attempts to balance around 8 man play on the OG classic servers let me tell you the types of changes the Phoenix team are implementing are far less damaging to solo balance than they could be. Sure getting insta gibbed by small mans with two casters is really stupid, and these Enchanter changes are obviously pretty toxic if you're caught by one in an open area, but at least they aren't trying to cram every class into a DPS role by giving them proc styles. THAT is disruptive to solo play.

I suppose "it could be worse" isn't the best consolation, but man, it could be, and has been, a lot worse.

They are balancing around 8 v 8 and foregoing ANYTHING else and there are fantastic arguments against it --- Mythic/EA balanced using 8 as the model but , initially, balanced around RvR --- a more ability and counter approach --- which they did ok until they, too, abandoned it. It's their game but it's not really DAOC -- it's just an 8/small fight in a DAOC world.

Re: Balance Changes #6

mattymc wrote:
Sun 9 May 2021 1:58 AM
They are balancing around 8 v 8 and foregoing ANYTHING else and there are fantastic arguments against it --- Mythic/EA balanced using 8 as the model but , initially, balanced around RvR --- a more ability and counter approach --- which they did ok until they, too, abandoned it. It's their game but it's not really DAOC -- it's just an 8/small fight in a DAOC world.

8v8 is the only world where balance exists, because it's the only world where the numbers are the same and it's about class abilities and player skill.

If you can't understand that, well, there's no hope for you.

And if you hate the server so much, leave.

Re: Balance Changes #6

ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sun 9 May 2021 7:56 AM
mattymc wrote:
Sun 9 May 2021 1:58 AM
They are balancing around 8 v 8 and foregoing ANYTHING else and there are fantastic arguments against it --- Mythic/EA balanced using 8 as the model but , initially, balanced around RvR --- a more ability and counter approach --- which they did ok until they, too, abandoned it. It's their game but it's not really DAOC -- it's just an 8/small fight in a DAOC world.

8v8 is the only world where balance exists, because it's the only world where the numbers are the same and it's about class abilities and player skill.

If you can't understand that, well, there's no hope for you.
the amount of times any phoenix zerg has been comprised of 8mans is 0. The doublethink brought on by '8man' is treating most full groups as if they are running optimal setups where the pool of online players never permits it. Whether or not centering things around the practical 8-slot group is the best approach I don't know, but it's absolutely not the only means of balance in DAoC because of the nature of RvR

Re: Balance Changes #6

Tyrlaan wrote:
Sat 1 May 2021 1:17 PM
Nah expect more Chanter buffs because this change is not gonna accomplish their goal of more Chanters in 8v8 groups. Can only be cynical at this point.
Too much is gained by going the body/energy debuff route, Mentalists and Mana Elds, debuffs for Animists and all CC but baseline stuns, tanglers all over the place etc.
No way some pet spells are gonna make people switch back to heat debuff trains. It made Chanters much more powerful solo and in smallmans however.

I wonder when Alb and Mid are gonna get a con debuff now that all Hib casters can stat debuff (for a higher delve than some remaining points in Void offered). I wonder when Alb and Mid get at least some stun debuff nuker now that Hib is handed out roots. When will Alb and Mid duos and trios get the same utility as Bard+X (add class you recently packed with dps and utility). When will Clerics, Shamans and Skalds get something to close the utility gap to the 3 Naturalist group core? Where´s Mid´s 2nd NS class (not that Wizards play much of a role in 8v8, unlike Mentalists and Elds). Why were Earth Wizards and Runecarvers nerfed?

There was some idea and delicate balance behind differences between realms. That seems lost. But obviously Hib can have plenty relics for most of the time and easily defend them and still gonna get buffs under the guise of balance changes because it is ultra-important that Chanters get a 8v8 group slot.

I'd argue that Alb is still pretty overpowered in a lot of situations, but, this post is spot on.

Re: Balance Changes #6

ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Sun 9 May 2021 7:56 AM
mattymc wrote:
Sun 9 May 2021 1:58 AM
They are balancing around 8 v 8 and foregoing ANYTHING else and there are fantastic arguments against it --- Mythic/EA balanced using 8 as the model but , initially, balanced around RvR --- a more ability and counter approach --- which they did ok until they, too, abandoned it. It's their game but it's not really DAOC -- it's just an 8/small fight in a DAOC world.

8v8 is the only world where balance exists, because it's the only world where the numbers are the same and it's about class abilities and player skill.

If you can't understand that, well, there's no hope for you.

And if you hate the server so much, leave.

One day you may learn comprehension of the written word --- one day. Balancing is more than 8 similar abilities and player 'skill'; if you can't understand that --- try harder.