Re: New PvE Content and changes to existing instanced PvE Content

I dont agree with modifying the Instances, But if this is your plan of action; I'd like to voice my opinon
1. Making the dungeons take longer because some groups have circumvented some mechanics.
-- This seems fine to me as it adds a bit more variety to the character pool already.
-- I cant see many people being able to play the dungeon this way and its already difficult to get new people to try dungeons because a lot of players seem to be rather against taking new players or teaching the instances.
2. Bosses will then one hit any caster or healer if aggro is ever lost.
-- I dont see this as much of an issue if Damage is lowered though. But Still might be something to check out depending on how your modifying the bosses damage recieved be it resists or what have you.
3. 66% seems a touch high.
---With MoM 5 and Aug Acuity 5 pbaoes can hit for about 1K. Reducing that to 300 damage. I think 40% would be a good start. If your trying to extend the dungeon.

So I have a few suggestions as well.
1. Add in a Flat Feather bonus modifier based on Number of completions in a group maybe. E.g. Starts at 600 (So equivalent 75 runs per member)
---Every 100 Completitions after that when last mob in instance is killed Grants an additional 500 Feathers. So a group with 1K total completions Gets an additional 2K feathers each. To offset the diminishing returns and promotes Taking experienced players
2. Bosses Cannot Resist Spell damage if possible.
-- If your going to limit spell damage I think it would be nice that you couldnt be resisted or only have 1% chance Just to add hard consistancy to it.
3. Take Away Crit Variance in the dungeons. For both Melee/spell.
-- Allows there to be a a bit of reward for higher RR casters and Melee.
4. Maybe the number of Debuffs, on a Boss can increase the damage done. Akin to Str/con + Con Debuff dealing more damage in PvE
--This promotes Taking Assassins for their poisons and other Debuffing classes.
5. For hib Specifically Raising the Shroom Cap per animist maybe.

Re: New PvE Content and changes to existing instanced PvE Content

Your usual approach is usually to not "punish" players, but rather give incentives to make them do otherwise.
So this "Nerf hammer" approach must have to do with upcoming encounter mechanics? It does seem a bit forced.

Whatever the case, i would advise to take a different approach, as others already suggested.

No nerf/change on Damage.
Lower the Flat Feather Amount.
Give additional Bonuses when Setup is limited to 1x Class.
Give yet additional stackable bonuses, when using the least used classes in DS/HoH per Realm. (f.e.for Hib: Ench 0% bonus, Druid 0% Bonus, Warden 15%, NS 10% Bonus, etc.)
etc. ...something in that vein.

Re: New PvE Content and changes to existing instanced PvE Content

DJ2000 wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:16 AM
Your usual approach is usually to not "punish" players, but rather give incentives to make them do otherwise.
So this "Nerf hammer" approach must have to do with upcoming encounter mechanics? It does seem a bit forced.

Whatever the case, i would advise to take a different approach, as others already suggested.

No nerf/change on Damage.
Lower the Flat Feather Amount.
Give additional Bonuses when Setup is limited to 1x Class.
Give yet additional stackable bonuses, when using the least used classes in DS/HoH per Realm. (f.e.for Hib: Ench 0% bonus, Druid 0% Bonus, Warden 15%, NS 10% Bonus, etc.)
etc. ...something in that vein.

This is fine in a game that went through number tuning already and we're talking about +-15% damage between the dps classes, especially the class based feather bonus is something we've talked about internally. The problem is, we're right now pretty much in the wow classic + world buffs + warrior stacking state.

Re: New PvE Content and changes to existing instanced PvE Content

Jingo NZ wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 12:02 AM
This is a good approach from the devs. A good philosophy of closing the gap between the optimal and the suboptimal setups.
Once they done that they can balance the duration /risk /reward to line up with their intent; with less worry about having to balance it for the 15min pbaoe runs.

Soooooo let me get this straight, a damage ability that has a higher delve damage should NOT do more damage than a damage ability that has a lower delve? Its like making the guy who can run faster in a race, run with heavier shoes to make it fair, instead of having the others try to get better.

How in the world does this help "suboptimal" groups? you think a Bard/Druid/Warden/Ranger/NS/Hero/Menty/BM should have the same time/ease as a Bard/Druid/Hero/BM/Ment/Chanter/Chanter/Eld ? or whatnot?

Realistically, if you want people to "have to" follow the mechanics instead of blasting through stuff, design better mechanics. Nerfing damage is not a "mechanic". Add say the damage is lowered unless X is done first etc is a mechanic. Or target immune to X damage until Y damage has hit a threshold etc.

Re: New PvE Content and changes to existing instanced PvE Content

Sagz wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 1:12 AM
Soooooo let me get this straight, a damage ability that has a higher delve damage should NOT do more damage than a damage ability that has a lower delve? Its like making the guy who can run faster in a race, run with heavier shoes to make it fair, instead of having the others try to get better.

We could also increase the boss hp by 5x and have everyone slog through the millions of hp with casters going oom at the 60% mark forcing them to regen having them end at a reasonable dps when you include the reg time.
People forget that casters have higher dps because they are interruptible and consume mana, however, interrupt is intentionally usually avoidable for the most part and the fights are tuned so that a single mana bar is enough given pots, charge and completions (for hoh) and tinder in case of healer.

I would argue a dps decrease for the outlier that lengthens the encounter for the cheese setups to still be within 1 mana bar is better than forcing every setup to somehow reg 2 or 3 mana bars in a fight.

Re: New PvE Content and changes to existing instanced PvE Content

gruenesschaf wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 1:18 AM
Sagz wrote:
Sat 13 Feb 2021 1:12 AM
Soooooo let me get this straight, a damage ability that has a higher delve damage should NOT do more damage than a damage ability that has a lower delve? Its like making the guy who can run faster in a race, run with heavier shoes to make it fair, instead of having the others try to get better.

We could also increase the boss hp by 5x and have everyone slog through the millions of hp with casters going oom at the 60% mark forcing them to regen having them end at a reasonable dps when you include the reg time.
People forget that casters have higher dps because they are interruptible and consume mana, however, interrupt is intentionally usually avoidable for the most part and the fights are tuned so that a single mana bar is enough given pots, charge and completions (for hoh) and tinder in case of healer.

I would argue a dps decrease for the outlier that lengthens the encounter for the cheese setups to still be within 1 mana bar is better than forcing every setup to somehow reg 2 or 3 mana bars in a fight.

If you want people to have to follow the mechanics though what you are proposing again, is NOT a mechanic. Why not just add a mechanic that would interrupt casters if something else is not done? Or the classes power and endo drains faster until X part of the encounter is done? Or only doing damage with melee until boss does X, then have to do Magic damage, till he does Y? etc. That is a mechanic. Nerfing the amount of damage or increasing the mana cost (all of which are outside of the class ability outside the instance) and keeping the current mechanic is not a mechanic.

But whatever, I do not run the server or really have a say in what goes on, but some times things dont make sense. I barely have the time to do it now more or less when it will take longer to do.

Re: New PvE Content and changes to existing instanced PvE Content

Add a simple damage shield ability to some bosses, but one that reflects against a magical attack versus the traditional damage shield that reflects vs physical. That way, casters need to be aware of the Boss Calls and halt DPS at certain points of a fight or they end up killing either themselves or their healers power bar.

And as far as NEW pve content goes.... the SI dungeons are tragically under-used aside from Sidi/Galla/TG. Make going to them worthwhile. Please!
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