Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 6:10 PM
Valaraukar wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 3:00 PM
I think that is quite assured that here Devs prefer to cure the symptom rather than the cause. Rangers volley was an issue? Nerf volley for everyone. Albs Gtaoe is an issue? Nerf Gtaoe for everyone.

Volley nerf was a nerf for all 3 archers, not just Rangers. Was before Scouts got their root style, so Scouts and Hunters were not so many around. So a fair nerf, same thing for gtaoe. There`s something wrong if you can place a gtaoe on each possible place on a keep roof, makes a defense impossible, and on top via /groundassist.

Do you want a halfway fair fight or easy mode with no defense in keepfights?

No wait... when the volley reuse timer has been nerfed I'm pretty sure that scouts already had that ridicolous no-immunity-kite-ftw stun style. And I agree that the nerf affected all the three realms, but the root cause was the "abuse" of just one realm (in that case Hib with insane ranger DPS). Anyone has ever seen around someone complaining about Hunters volley assist? No.
Now it's the same for GTAOE. The issue is caused by the "abuse" of GTAOE by Albion, and it is nerfed for all the three realms. Anyone has ever seen around someone complaining about Runemasters GTAOE assist? No. But here we go again, plain nerf for everybody, instead of rightful adjustements to the "broken" classes (in this case Alb with Wizard and Necros).
Finrod Felagund - Healer
Finwe Herufund - Thane
Fingon Aldaron - Hunter
Loegen TheBloodyNine - Berserker
Valaraukar Varulven - Bonedancer


GM of Dark Templars - Midgard Italian Guild
"Guldkrona jag passar ej på. Ditt unga liv och blod måst gå"

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Good change imo. I think #2 makes #1 unnecessary and will give some needed love to heavy tanks in defense situations but I don't see any game-breaking downside to removing groundassist - players can always find workarounds if necessary (ex. for the person that mentioned using ground targets for pve coordination - "stand in my spot and /groundset X" ).

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Valaraukar wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 7:05 PM
Stoertebecker wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 6:10 PM
Valaraukar wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 3:00 PM
I think that is quite assured that here Devs prefer to cure the symptom rather than the cause. Rangers volley was an issue? Nerf volley for everyone. Albs Gtaoe is an issue? Nerf Gtaoe for everyone.

Volley nerf was a nerf for all 3 archers, not just Rangers. Was before Scouts got their root style, so Scouts and Hunters were not so many around. So a fair nerf, same thing for gtaoe. There`s something wrong if you can place a gtaoe on each possible place on a keep roof, makes a defense impossible, and on top via /groundassist.

Do you want a halfway fair fight or easy mode with no defense in keepfights?

No wait... when the volley reuse timer has been nerfed I'm pretty sure that scouts already had that ridicolous no-immunity-kite-ftw stun style. And I agree that the nerf affected all the three realms, but the root cause was the "abuse" of just one realm (in that case Hib with insane ranger DPS). Anyone has ever seen around someone complaining about Hunters volley assist? No.

Because we had not that many hunters, and we had never a coordinated hunter keepdefense group for several reasons...gtaoe is one of them.
Hard to shoot something if all places on a wall or a keep roof is full with gt`s for katapults and gtaoe.

Have you ever tried to defend Bledmeer? No? Try it before the changes.

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Loving the thought behind the idea and loving the server.

That beeing said:
Everyone seems to get all thier panties twisted in a bunch buy this..... easy to imagine since alot of people have put ALOT of hours into thier chars and realm(s).
But DO REMEMBER: It's a freeshard, you aren't paying to play (except for the volontary donations). I view Phoenix is a PTR server, and that is how it is. Developers spend countless hours improving stuff they themselves didn't enjoy on live... All for ungreatful whiners that dont want to play on the Live servers because they don't like the rulesets there. Well time to wake up and face it: If you don't like it start and run your own server, see how fun it will be having people bash and complain about ANY and ALL changes you try to implement. All versions of this game has had thier ups and downs! Phoenix is no different, stuff needs to be tested and run thru the paces - and I'd reckon 99% of teh player base wouldn't bother largescale test on a PTR cluster before hand.

To the point: I went thru most of the comments and replies, pretty boilerplate whining with the occasional good one in the mix....
GTAE has been a annoyance for a looooooong time. Especially the interrupt part, whichever realm you play on. Doesn't matter who's looking at who.
Kinda the way it was intended.. but has always been in need of tweaking!

Nerfing it server wide seems like the most viable solution, no one gets left behind.

But.....
The way might not the the best one, there are afew highlights tho: (in some kind of ranking order)
1. Heavy tank "coverage" is an AWESOME idea! Bring more of them into the battlefield, its a casters siege now (frankly), with a couple of tanks.
---- This one would be the optimal solution, a "engage" of sorts for shield specc that covers the interrupt part of spell hits - whilst making the heavy immobile (self grapple)
2. Increased recast timer
---- Doesn't affect a BG with 20+ GTAE casters that much but could do wonders if combined with #7
3. GT assist reuse timer
---- Valid suggestion but will add another myriad of problems for siege equipment.
4. Nerf necro shade
---- This one should be on the #1 spot, for several reasons but I reckon other ways of solving the issues would be better. For one make the pet teleport out of door when shade does, no matter of stay/here/follow/stance/Etc. Or do it like animist, 300range on height and it goes poof.
5. Another look at wizard earth line. Maybe goes hand in hand with a look on Eld/RM speclines where we can find GTAE (void/cold)
---- Some solid things have been said on this point, and Earth is too stacked for rvr as it is. Tone it down with removal of debuffs as a start. OR look at RM/ELD GTAE lines to get them closer to what earth is capable of atm.
6. Group based gt-assist
7. Increase in cast time (ex. Cure Nearsight)
---- Longer cast = high chance of getting counter-GTAE'd or just plain rupted by something. Would work best in combo with #2

Peace out and keep up the good work Dev-team/Staff!

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

i cant say i like this..

why not only remove it from stealther, ram driver and necro instead of making it absolut useless? and i hope the tanks will take the dmg from the caster otherwise its like a free moc in my eyes oO

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Solong wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 9:21 PM
i cant say i like this..

why not only remove it from stealther, ram driver and necro instead of making it absolut useless? and i hope the tanks will take the dmg from the caster otherwise its like a free moc in my eyes oO

You can`t remove it that easily if it`s a global setting, hardcoded stuff etc.

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Solong wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 9:21 PM
i cant say i like this..

why not only remove it from stealther, ram driver and necro instead of making it absolut useless? and i hope the tanks will take the dmg from the caster otherwise its like a free moc in my eyes oO

Prevents interrupt not damage....

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Bry wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 2:31 PM
Removing groundassist doesn’t seem like it will correct the problem. When there were a lot of rangers using volley, volley was nerfed. When there were a lot of complaints about minstrels, releasing the pet to break their mez was needed. Same with bonedancer 4s lifetap.

The problem with gtaoe isn’t groundassist. The problem is that 1 realm has a class with a gtaoe spec that has so much custom utility buffed that makes it the primary spec with little reason to choose the other specs. For wizards, Earth has 8 skill lines in it. The gtaoe specs for eld and runemaster don’t even come close to having that much utility. Those classes have to do hybrid specs. The majority of elds don’t have any gtaoe. Runemasters can reasonably spec it since it’s the debuff line for 8v8s. No other class in the game gets as many tools in 1 spec.

The point is, breaking gtaoe for the entire server to address the problem with earth wizards being overbuffed and having little reason to go fire/ice has lead to a lot of earth wizards spamming gtaoe. The complaints about gtaoe come from mid/hib since albs have 20+ earth wizards zerging down towers.

Also, necros being allowed to set ground targets with their shade and the pet hidden behind a wall for safety is broken. Make it so the pet has to be in line of sight of the shade for a ground target to be placed.


Don’t break a function of the game because of class balanincg issues. Fix the classes.

Earth wizards need nearsight removed (no other realm has 2 classes with nearsight).
Removed debuffs from earth (sorcs already have heat/cold/matter debuff). Debuff bolting for yourself is broken anyways.
Remove the aoe dot from earth. Stacking 2 high level aoe dots (cab and earth wiz) is broken and no other realm can stack 2 high level aoe dots.

The. You have a balanced spec for earth. That fixes the gtaoe overpopulation problem.

Thank you.

Totally agree

Re: GTAoE Changes in Keep Fights

Bry wrote:
Mon 23 Nov 2020 2:31 PM
Removing groundassist doesn’t seem like it will correct the problem. When there were a lot of rangers using volley, volley was nerfed. When there were a lot of complaints about minstrels, releasing the pet to break their mez was needed. Same with bonedancer 4s lifetap.

The problem with gtaoe isn’t groundassist. The problem is that 1 realm has a class with a gtaoe spec that has so much custom utility buffed that makes it the primary spec with little reason to choose the other specs. For wizards, Earth has 8 skill lines in it. The gtaoe specs for eld and runemaster don’t even come close to having that much utility. Those classes have to do hybrid specs. The majority of elds don’t have any gtaoe. Runemasters can reasonably spec it since it’s the debuff line for 8v8s. No other class in the game gets as many tools in 1 spec.

The point is, breaking gtaoe for the entire server to address the problem with earth wizards being overbuffed and having little reason to go fire/ice has lead to a lot of earth wizards spamming gtaoe. The complaints about gtaoe come from mid/hib since albs have 20+ earth wizards zerging down towers.

Also, necros being allowed to set ground targets with their shade and the pet hidden behind a wall for safety is broken. Make it so the pet has to be in line of sight of the shade for a ground target to be placed.


Don’t break a function of the game because of class balanincg issues. Fix the classes.

Earth wizards need nearsight removed (no other realm has 2 classes with nearsight).
Removed debuffs from earth (sorcs already have heat/cold/matter debuff). Debuff bolting for yourself is broken anyways.
Remove the aoe dot from earth. Stacking 2 high level aoe dots (cab and earth wiz) is broken and no other realm can stack 2 high level aoe dots.

The. You have a balanced spec for earth. That fixes the gtaoe overpopulation problem.

Thank you.

Technically mid can stack two high level aoe dots, just saying lol
Hib: Imadoctor//Hypospray//Batleth

Alb: Redshirts//Philipjfry//Shieldsup

Mid: Aielman//Mahstuls//Smallsoldier