Re: RR5 RA Choice

Bry wrote:
Sat 26 Sep 2020 4:01 PM
2) Each class had a RR5 ability individualized so they could work on balance. There are way too many combinations if multiple classes can choose from multiple abilities. This will be nearly impossible to balance and ruin gameplay.
Pretty much this, choosable RR5s are going to break especially group RvR completely. Testudo on hero, charge/cabRR5 on all casters, savages with EXTRA 25% dmg+immu? And that's just a few examples, please reconsider!

Re: RR5 RA Choice

Again a change where i am wondering which issues it is supposed to fix/improve?

Not sure which combo is the scariest one, imo there are quite a few that are troubling, but the biggest issue imo aren't individual classes but the overall implications.

The abilities are heavily different in strength and i really doubt that with these classtype-groups the balance changes can be done right without hundreds of hours of work.

Re: RR5 RA Choice

Bry wrote:
Sat 26 Sep 2020 4:01 PM
2) Each class had a RR5 ability individualized so they could work on balance. There are way too many combinations if multiple classes can choose from multiple abilities. This will be nearly impossible to balance and ruin gameplay.

While that sounds nice in theory, it's imo a false premise. Especially if you look at the old RR5s half were impactful the other half completely useless, in case of the new ones many are impactful while still some are useless. There is no way you can tell anyone that yes, the warden rr5 has seen serious thought, same for friar, both were just lazy and mostly useless while somewhat thematically fitting things when compared to actually incredibly strong things like shaman or champ or vw. While individualized RR5 in theory has the potential to provide something to enhance the toolkit provided by the class it's worth nothing when it's not actually used like that.

Aside from maybe 3 outlier there is not really any issue in being able to choose from the suggested set, it makes no difference if a paladin, champ or VW has the over the top champ ability. The actual potential issue is ability stacking, e. g. multiple champ or shaman rr5 usages in a single group. But that's something that some minor number tuning could fix.

The intent is that every class group has some actual choice between at least 2 viable abilities while accepting that some ability will just be the better / only option in a certain playstyle.
In the suggested class / ability grouping that is already the case for the hybrid group (vw and champ are both incredibly strong), it's almost there for light tanks (merc outshines the others a bit but with minor tuning zerk would be a contender), it's the case for full tanks (warrior and arms are both super viable picks yet different), pet caster is a perfect example (you will pick the pet immunity in group fights, you will pick the pet mhb as solo sm, you should pick the pet sacrifice in zerg fights), the caster group also looks fine in that regard (eld for group, wizard is a viable option for zerg / keeps).

Tuning of the actual ability values is intended.

Re: RR5 RA Choice

Teisiphone wrote:
Sat 26 Sep 2020 5:04 PM
Bry wrote:
Sat 26 Sep 2020 4:01 PM
2) Each class had a RR5 ability individualized so they could work on balance. There are way too many combinations if multiple classes can choose from multiple abilities. This will be nearly impossible to balance and ruin gameplay.
Pretty much this, choosable RR5s are going to break especially group RvR completely. Testudo on hero, charge/cabRR5 on all casters, savages with EXTRA 25% dmg+immu? And that's just a few examples, please reconsider!

See it cancels itself out perfectly, you see the 25% damage svg coming towards you and you charge away, the svg will then switch to the hero who turns into a turtle. Perfect.

Re: RR5 RA Choice

I'm a big fan of RR5 abilities.
The main reason is the purpose Mythic tried to achieve with most RR5 abilities. They tried to even out weaknesses, buff strengths and overall define class roles with it. They tried to do that with flashy and cool one-time abilities instead of boring stat changes in the background.
Let me give you an example: The Reaver, his designed class role was to get deep down and dirty into enemy lines to rupt and debuff them with his pulses. Ofc as you all know doing that is usually a death sentence as you get focused down. That is why they came up with the Reaver Bomb RR5 ability: A pbaoe lifedrain attack that hits all nearby enemies and heals up the caster. As you can tell this synergizes very well with the class design role as it helps evening out the weakness of getting focused down and dying in enemy lines.

This however is also the reason I dislike this change. RR5 abilities were class specific on purpose. Sure not all were perfect but Mythic tried to balance and design them around each class for a reason. You can't just throw them all in a big mixer and expect good results, that is just not how they were meant to work in the first place.

Yes please give us RR5 abilities. Yes please fix & balance some of the RR5 abilities. But don't do whatever this is, it's terrible imo.

Also for people who care about class and realm identity (not me) getting other realms and classes RR5 abilities sucks too.

Re: RR5 RA Choice

Another big point I totally forgot to mention in my previous post; the roulette aspect of this change.

Identifying enemy classes, setups, specs and even spells that are about to cast is a big part in DAoC. It is what separates good from very good players. We know what we can expect to get thrown at us from any given enemy. You know a scout could slam you, you know a Minstrel can mezz you, etc. It is so deeply integrated in our daily gaming that we don't really think about it and that is good.

However this patch will change it. No more can you say "Oh a Blademaster, if he is RR5 he could throw his RR5 ability on us." No. Because you don't know what RR5 ability he chose. Even worse you can't know.
RR5 abilities are exceptionally powerful in this game and knowing what could come is even more important because of that. After this patch we will play a game of roulette of what exceptionally powerful RR5 ability we have to deal with, with no way of knowing or preparing beforehand. A game of chance that is untypical for DAoC and I assume will throw many people off. DAoC was never a game of gambling, it was a game of information.

Re: RR5 RA Choice

Why are all the big changes to this server done in rapid fire succession? We haven't even tested free fa with cd, and now there's a slew of headaches coming down the pipe line that prove to further complicate things. Hope for the best, but i really don't think this is going to play out well.

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