Scouts

Dear Phoenix team.

I think you are doing a fantastic job at maintaining balance between the different classes across the board.

However, I think that you need to look into the Scout class, I have been playing scout solo for the last 5-6 months, and I LOVE the class, it is however the underdog en 8 out of 10 fights.

Any other stealther, can kill you as a scout, Rangers melee you down, and while you slam/stop/run they will turn and shoot at you before you get a chance to load your bow.

I am not saying that scout is unplayable, but your sole target is pretty much casters, and some of the heavy fighters where you can kite them.

My post here is just a request to beef them up in someway, remove the nerf on bow damage for example, or add something for them melee wise that will make them viable.

Scout pretty much only have one spec that you can run, and that's 50 bow, 45 shield, 35 stealth 15 weapon.

If you go less bow, you nerf your bow damage, you need the shield to maintain a chance of blocking and stopping the enemy from pounding you, as your melee damage is so bad its just really not worth it.

Please, help out the scouts, do something for them to make ppl want to play this wonderful class. '

/K

Re: Scouts

Astaa wrote:
Tue 27 Apr 2021 11:13 AM
If only they had some sort of melee snare that has zero immunity.

Absolutly, and that works great on 2-3 classes, except by the time you have run out of range, turn and shoot you can pop 2-3 shots as rapid fire, and they are on you again. and by the time you attempt to do it again, you are out of end.

Re: Scouts

Archers are really really hard to balance. The Devs have tried many times... but the major issue is that their playstyle is best suited to two things...
1) /assisting and insta killing solos as part of a group of archers.
2) adding small fights

—— & both of these play styles are widely hated by everyone.

So Phoenix tried balancing them to be good at 1v1 with more Bow damage. This made them better and they got a few more kills, especially rangers. However, it also made the group of archers playstyle even more oppressive/toxic. Hence, the outcry and nerf.

Basically, Archers need some changes/buffs that improve the class without adding to the two toxic play styles (mentioned above).

I don’t play archers much so don’t have many suggestions. Here’s some

1. Remove AF buff from buffpotions and possibly give scout self AF in shield line.
2. Increase melee damage of high melee specs!
3. Lower arrow damage when shooting a target in melee combat*
4. Lower arrow damage if /assist shooting*
5. After 3&4 maybe Buff archery damage.
6. Try adding trip/snare/debuff/pbaoe/dot arrows

*e.g. when someone is shot by an arrow or meleed they get a 1.5s (or whatevers sensible) buff called flinching, this lowers archery dmg by 75%.

Re: Scouts

Blitze wrote:
Tue 27 Apr 2021 11:42 AM
Archers are really really hard to balance. The Devs have tried many times... but the major issue is that their playstyle is best suited to two things...
1) /assisting and insta killing solos as part of a group of archers.
2) adding small fights

—— & both of these play styles are widely hated by everyone.

So Phoenix tried balancing them to be good at 1v1 with more Bow damage. This made them better and they got a few more kills, especially rangers. However, it also made the group of archers playstyle even more oppressive/toxic. Hence, the outcry and nerf.

Basically, Archers need some changes/buffs that improve the class without adding to the two toxic play styles (mentioned above).

I don’t play archers much so don’t have many suggestions. Here’s some

1. Remove AF buff from buffpotions and possibly give scout self AF in shield line.
2. Increase melee damage of high melee specs!
3. Lower arrow damage when in shooting a target in melee combat*
4. Lower arrow damage if /assist shooting*
5. After 3&4 maybe Buff archery damage.
6. Try adding trip/snare/debuff/pbaoe/dot arrows

*e.g. when someone is shot by an arrow or meleed they get a 1.5s (or whatevers sensible) buff called flinching, this lowers archery dmg by 75%.

That is some great suggestions, I just think something should be done, and I understand that it is very difficult to balance.

I particular like your suggestion on the flinching buff, that would make it harder for the 8 man ranger parties, tbh. I've never meet one of those groups on alb.

Re: Scouts

There is tons of problems atm that make scout the underdog by far :

First and the biggest problem of all : the variance damage... Rng is killing the class tbh. We are a kiting class, it takes already age to kill someone and this variance is a real nightmare most of the fight... It's not a problem when you play in group or in an assist train of scout (that litteraly doesn't exist on alb). So i'm still asking why gm did that change to us ?! I'm playing 50+20 bow and having a normal shot to a 5L nuker without relic for 64 damage+64 damage absorb (-50% cause of bt) is a real joke... So rng make me hit for 256 (3.1 sec for 64 damage !). Archer class are supposed to have some spike damage but then cause of that most of the time it doesn't. We just have to pray when you see someone inc to get lucky in your dice rolls ! Seriously, it's already hard enough to kill someone without getting add and still you need to have rng on your side. At least when variance wasn't there you knew from the begining if killing someone was possible. Now it's totaly random.

I understand that melee grp (GvG elitist) need spike damage, but remoove it from archery damage... It has never been a thing on DAOC ! It's like nukers, the more points you put in it, the less variance you get. And it should work like that too. It would be even more beneficial vs archer zerg since it will reduce the chance to get a oneshot on assist. And i really like the idea given on this topic about a buff that reduce all incoming arrows for 1.4sec for 75% after being hit by an arrow (not 1.5 or it will brake the cap point of rapidfire of 1.5). You can pretty much add anything for all archers class after that since it will kill the archers zerg.

Second : We lack melee but gm give us a great tool at 45 shield : a root/snare. I totaly agree 14 second was OP. 10 seems a bit low now. But i don't mind we can still kite most of the time. The real bitch is the endu cost. If you nerf the duration, at least change the endu cost... Seems totaly fair ?! Since we already got 15% miss on this skill + the avoidance of your target (block / parry / evade or even a bt), we have to cheese straf to hit with it. When i see some other class being totaly brainless in comparaison, reduce endu cost to 25% or even 20 doesn't seem like a game changer at all.

Thrid : Melee damage... Damage table totaly suck for scout, we can just check the 2,3 videos people have posted recently and it will show that without IP 4 / purge it's nearly impossible to kill anything at all. We litteraly have the worst damage from all the toons that have a melee line spec (same as warden and bard maybe but it's not their job). And still, people are playing it cause they love their toon. I won't mind trading my 50 bow to 35 if melee was worth anything. But unfortunately it doesn't.

Scout is not supposed to be played melee. But giving something to us in archery spec to make us a bit more viable in melee wouldn't be a bad idea... I will talk about that later.

Fourth : We lack selfbuff... Haters gonna say : YEAH but you don't have to spend points into Pathfinding or Beastcraft. Ofc we don't have to spend spec points into it, but how much realm points we need to spend to get what rangers have with selfbuff and imbah lurry racial stats ?! Just to compensate the d/q buff we need to spend at least 20 points ra points and we are not even close to what they have in dex and quick.... Doesn't seem legit at all to me when scout is like the worst archers from all. Just to get 1.5 rapid fire : 20 ra points waste ! Nice... 5 ra points to get that for rangers with the right distribution of starting points and the right race. Hunters doesn't need anything to get that with the 5.0 max bow (btw this should be changed too, allowing them to have at least a 5.2. But since they have way better melee damage and pet, 5.0 doesn't feel that bad ?). Let's be real here, scout only got his bow to make damage. Spending 20 points (quick 5 / moarchery 5) to get the same cap speed than others is what we can call a "FUCKING JOKE".

This exemple is for anyone playing scout with a 5.5 bow. So if you don't want to spend that much ra points to get cap, we can still play with a faster one. But then you nerf the maximum damage you can do... Another exemple of how broke we are atm vs others.

And i don't even talk about the self speed that allow hunt and ranger to run away... Yeah but you can root snare. Vs a sin you are dead even before you can land your root sometimes (when i mean dead, fight over cause you can't kite anymore or run away). But i will not beg for that !

Fifth : Overall realm utility... Keep fights, useless. Damage is so bad that it's not even worth hiting someone in a group. The only kill you can get is by targeting people who doesn't seem to be 50 yet. Seriously what's the point in that ? I'm not playing keeps fight cause of this, it's litteraly a waste of time and energy. If i want to kill some people that are not 50 i can go to a relic dock tbh (and most players don't xp in frontiers anymore). If you want to play keep fight as an archer : roll ranger since you get self buff and by that way better overall damage. You can just skip the melee line like power rangers do. We would need a cleric and a theur/wiz to get what they have in one spec line (except base dex). Most of the clerics community will never allow a scout to be in his grp... If by chance i'm pulling someone from Power rangers from that post : scout is the underdog 95% of the time... Try to play scout in a keep fight and land more than two arrows without mooving (vs mid and hib it's nearly impossible without getting stun and insta kill).

Scouts are underpop from a longtime now and don't have their place in keepfights...

GvG fight ? Not even close to get a grp. Except if you want to troll...

Small man stealth ? Seriously just go full shield + melee spec it would be ten times better than hiting with your bow... Your inf and mins with a guard will be way happier than having someone hiting for 250 / 500 on normal shot cause of this rng. And it's super easy to counter an archer.

Solo ? One fight every 15 minutes except if you are high rank and know your class perfectly. And even like that, rng will probably kill you.

Sixth : Small shield... I know dual get a 25% bonus hitrate vs shield user. So we are like the easiest kill a sin can have. Snare, disease dead. Or pray god to have IP4 / purge up everytime. And the sin community is growing bigger with age cause people are tired of the zerg fights or the elitist gvg... And still, there is nothing done for us. We don't even represent 1/7 of the stealth players on prime time (thanks minstrels and rangers for that). If you think that all archers are on the same pedestal, we are not ! Hunter got pet + two hand. Ranger got dual wield + great melee line spec + best self buffs. We got what ? Low 1H damage + small shield ?! Just to get 40% blockrate with 320 dex and 65 shield i need mastery of block 7 vs a dual wielder... And i will probably never win in melee with this anyway...

Give D/Q buff + Spec AF will not change much in melee but will allow scout to get a bit more punch and will maybe allow him to survive one more swing (or two) and maybe compensate a bit more in melee if people need more time to kill us (=more swing for us too). At the moment we have the best avoidance from the three archery class but we are the easiest one to kill during a stun since we have the worst AF. I don't count anymore how many times i was killed on a 7 sec stun from creeping death.

So now what do we need to do or say to get something from the gm community ? I understand that you probably don't care about the solo community. But scouts would be beneficial in keep fights if they were on the same level as rangers or hunters... Giving self D/Q + spec AF buff would allow to get more melee damage if thrust spec and less damage taken from melee damage. And if bow damage is way too much with that buff, you can just nerf us again... But since ranger damage seems legit to you, why not giving the same tool for scout ? Or put the self buffs in archery spec like live ?! You don't want to do anything for us in melee like it was ask numerous time already on forum and discord, but you can probably do something for archery then ? It will not change that much anyway our overall damage and we will still be under ranger cause we don't have the add damage buff...

I rest my case. Thanks and keep the great work you are doing for allowing us to play on Phoenix.

Watika.

Re: Scouts

evert wrote:
Tue 27 Apr 2021 8:36 PM
^^This guy knows what he’s talking about. Buff scouts (never thought I would say that).

/Kiss !

Play your minstrel

Re: Scouts

DJ2000 wrote:
Tue 27 Apr 2021 10:36 PM
How does a Scout intend to cast anything if they don't even have Mana?

Or maybe you are going for Savage-Like selfbuffs?
You could give them an ability that boosts combi pot gains to the level desired