Celerity / charge / debuff resist

I want to talk about a subject that interests me.
First of all, thank you for this free shard.

TANK :

There is a lot of caster and very little tank.

I hardly ever play on Mid and yet I pity them.

No charge, debuff resist 50%
Berseker or savage or WArrior must be hard.

I have 3 ideas.

Why big tanks are so weak (they need + 10% resist all magic HERO / WARRIOR / ARMSMAN)

Why not put the charge for the Off TANK

Why not slightly reduce the debuff resist 50%

This is only my little opinion

And solo for me Celerity on paladin and WArden

Re: Celerity / charge / debuff resist

Devs believe that Charge was added as a counter to Speed Warp, and that Bodyguard & Brittle Guards are the counter to Charge, and as they have no intention of introducing those three abilities they have taken a hard "no Charge" stance.

Also:
gruenesschaf wrote: Last November we internally decided to announce some major change regarding the future of the server once the eu pt population drops below a certain threshold on a non holiday Sunday. Aside from bug fixes there won't be anymore gameplay changes until then.
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Re: Celerity / charge / debuff resist

With charge it's pretty much that it makes bg or speedwarp required to counter the target not being peelable for the duration of charge, however, at least bg is more effective due to not having a cooldown and kind of requires banelord ml 1/2 as the answer.
The alternative to countering with bg would be with speedwarp, however, this is less effective / solid and would depend on being able to drag the charge tanks out of range.

Regardless of adding any of the imo required counter options, adding charge right now while everyone has 9 second slam would pretty much remove all non charge light tanks and non full tanks from group consideration and at least for the hero it will be reevaluated if the full tank ras are worth it compared to another charge 5. Even with the reduced slam duration for non full tanks it would still remove all hybrids without access to it from consideration with the odd vw maybe being still getting invited by accident. In case of mid you'll have pretty huge QQ either way as you either kill the svg by not giving it to him or you get qq from everyone else that svg has charge.
The easy way out here would be what live did: just give it light tanks for free and allow certain hybrids to spec it as RA, thereby solving making hybrids obsolete. The counter argument is that now everyone has it, but the counter to that again would be that everyone would play charge tanks anyways and not their hybrids. Pretty much just meh.

It's somewhat simpler to just not go there.

Re: Celerity / charge / debuff resist

gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 28 Oct 2020 9:30 PM
With charge it's pretty much that it makes bg or speedwarp required to counter the target not being peelable for the duration of charge, however, at least bg is more effective due to not having a cooldown and kind of requires banelord ml 1/2 as the answer.
The alternative to countering with bg would be with speedwarp, however, this is less effective / solid and would depend on being able to drag the charge tanks out of range.

Regardless of adding any of the imo required counter options, adding charge right now while everyone has 9 second slam would pretty much remove all non charge light tanks and non full tanks from group consideration and at least for the hero it will be reevaluated if the full tank ras are worth it compared to another charge 5. Even with the reduced slam duration for non full tanks it would still remove all hybrids without access to it from consideration with the odd vw maybe being still getting invited by accident. In case of mid you'll have pretty huge QQ either way as you either kill the svg by not giving it to him or you get qq from everyone else that svg has charge.
The easy way out here would be what live did: just give it light tanks for free and allow certain hybrids to spec it as RA, thereby solving making hybrids obsolete. The counter argument is that now everyone has it, but the counter to that again would be that everyone would play charge tanks anyways and not their hybrids. Pretty much just meh.

It's somewhat simpler to just not go there.

Why not just remove the penalty against DW for large tanks only for large shields. During a charge a heavy tank can help by being a blocker during the short timer keeping a caster/healer up. To me hybrids are too strong here without any compensation to the heavy/light tanks, the style changes were going to do the same thing. Give the light tanks reduced stuns on shield styles and then charge as an ra. The heavies get shield styles and 9 sec stun on slam while large shields don't suffer any penalties to DW (make them defensive tanks if they want it)

Re: Celerity / charge / debuff resist

whats the counter to debuff trains?
is it too op to have a 30s charge on a 15 min timer to counter a caster setup every now and then?
i find it pretty hard to unterstand this tbh
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Re: Celerity / charge / debuff resist

Not wanting to go "there" is definitely just ignoring caster vs melee imbalance on this server and Midgard seems to suffer the most from it due to its inherent group makeup that favors the tank setup. Any decent Hib/Alb 8man caster setup will wipe a Mid tank setup and it just gets old after a while. You've seen the slow decline of Midgard for various reasons and I believe that this issue is one of them, people want to go to the easier realms where the group makeup/classes are superior.

Re: Celerity / charge / debuff resist

gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 28 Oct 2020 9:30 PM
With charge it's pretty much that it makes bg or speedwarp required to counter the target not being peelable for the duration of charge, however, at least bg is more effective due to not having a cooldown and kind of requires banelord ml 1/2 as the answer.
The alternative to countering with bg would be with speedwarp, however, this is less effective / solid and would depend on being able to drag the charge tanks out of range.

Regardless of adding any of the imo required counter options, adding charge right now while everyone has 9 second slam would pretty much remove all non charge light tanks and non full tanks from group consideration and at least for the hero it will be reevaluated if the full tank ras are worth it compared to another charge 5. Even with the reduced slam duration for non full tanks it would still remove all hybrids without access to it from consideration with the odd vw maybe being still getting invited by accident. In case of mid you'll have pretty huge QQ either way as you either kill the svg by not giving it to him or you get qq from everyone else that svg has charge.
The easy way out here would be what live did: just give it light tanks for free and allow certain hybrids to spec it as RA, thereby solving making hybrids obsolete. The counter argument is that now everyone has it, but the counter to that again would be that everyone would play charge tanks anyways and not their hybrids. Pretty much just meh.

It's somewhat simpler to just not go there.

It's somewhat simpler to just leave the infinte kite mechanics for casters
With perma end regen it is impossible to get close enough to kiting casters, if they are just decent at it. And with the magic debuff focus any tank that tries to get close is taken down in 3 or maybe 4 secs, no healing possible. So if you say that there is no counter (or a very difficult one) to charge, tell us what is the counter to this. You even nerfed the most efficient Mid interrupter (BD) so the other realms casters are completely free to kite, cast, kite and go on forever like this. A fight against a decent Hib or Alb caster setup means going after them for about an entire Map Zone, hoping they will get stuck somewhere or take some aggro mobs on the path. It's getting ridiculous, the Mid population is at its lowest and you are taking absolutely no action to solve this issue, because "it's somewhat simpler to just not go there". Ok fine, so where are we going? Are we going to stay like this forever?
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Re: Celerity / charge / debuff resist

inoeth wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020 10:04 AM
whats the counter to debuff trains?
is it too op to have a 30s charge on a 15 min timer to counter a caster setup every now and then?
i find it pretty hard to unterstand this tbh

A single 30s charge tank would be fine, maybe even 2. However, if it were really 30 seconds you'd see the meta shift to something like 3 or maybe even 4 bm groups that against caster groups will just all charge at the start, ideally with atog, hoping to blab 2 targets in that window and there is pretty much nothing that can be done against them in those 30 seconds without any of the counters.
It would basically degenerate into SB / BoF / DD vs charge and hoping to survive 3 or 4 tanks wailing at a single target for 30 seconds.

Just as an aside, the charge variant in line with the other RAs would be the 15 second one where the timer gets reduced with higher charge levels. Normally timers don't really matter, in my opinion at least, if they are above a certain duration that in most circumstances means usable only once per fight. This charge variant, at least if implemented 1:1, however means a 90 second cooldown at charge 5 which usually means usable more than once per fight.

gotwqqd wrote: Counter to charge.....turn tail and run

That would assume using charge wrong, aka using charge without properly breaking speed. This counter is only reliably possible with speedwarp.