Pally "S Is for Suboptimal" - Phoenix Freeshard

https://youtu.be/hKdMANW6e48

Thu 13 May 2021 3:48 AM by ExcretusMaximus

This is where Majesty comes in and tells you it doesn't matter i you can kill RR10s when it takes forever, because those kind of fights are so rare they may as well not exist.

Thu 13 May 2021 4:18 AM by Steelcurtain28

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 3:48 AM
This is where Majesty comes in and tells you it doesn't matter i you can kill RR10s when it takes forever, because those kind of fights are so rare they may as well not exist.

LoL

Thu 13 May 2021 9:13 AM by Ceen

If I would weapon swap sword to two hand all the time, I would write a handy script that shows me the 2h swing timer as a bar .
That way even if autofacing targets to death you at least hit at cap speed.

Thu 13 May 2021 10:18 AM by Centenario

Why are you using large shield. You should be using small dragon shield with 2.5 speed.

Where are your melee styles on your bars? I dont see them so how are you casting them?

Thu 13 May 2021 10:55 AM by Irkeno

Centenario wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 10:18 AM
Why are you using large shield. You should be using small dragon shield with 2.5 speed.

Where are your melee styles on your bars? I dont see them so how are you casting them?

Large dragon shield is 3.0 in alb so doesnt make much difference. Looks like hes cycling through for diff procs.

If you use /qbind in game you can bind styles to your keyboard. Its better for gameplay as you can have styles on your keyboard and timered abilities on your bar and avoid using shift/alt/ctrl modifiers.

Nice vid Eulo.

Thu 13 May 2021 12:16 PM by Steelcurtain28

Centenario wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 10:18 AM
Why are you using large shield. You should be using small dragon shield with 2.5 speed.

Where are your melee styles on your bars? I dont see them so how are you casting them?

So I use a small shield with a Damage add reactive after I slam I swap to my large shield that is a dot proc, after my dot proc goes off I swap to my large shield LT or when I need the LT.

For my one-hander I use Celerity sword proc and a player-crafted dot proc... Shield dot procs and player-crafted stacks. as for two-hand I only use apoc now because the AB is too op. My wep skills are on my second page wit q/binds as stated before easier to have the important stuff on 1-0 like wep swaps ect

Thu 13 May 2021 1:03 PM by Centenario

Is qbind something custom, never used it before.
Will certainly try it now ^^, it seems helpful, has always been annoying to use alt and ctrl modifiers.
Thanks

Thu 13 May 2021 1:45 PM by Steelcurtain28

Centenario wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 1:03 PM
Is qbind something custom, never used it before.
Will certainly try it now ^^, it seems helpful, has always been annoying to use alt and ctrl modifiers.
Thanks

do /qbind in game it will shows you how to set up qbinds for slots or ask on advice for instace bar 1 page 1 slot 1 would be /qbind 1 1 1 enter than press the button you want it to be. If its on. Hot bar 1 but page 2 than you would do 2 1 1 the first number is the page secons number is the number the skill it is on the third number is the hotbar you have the skill on. This is huge every single player should be doing really helps free up movement

Thu 13 May 2021 3:13 PM by Magesty

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 3:48 AM
This is where Majesty comes in and tells you it doesn't matter i you can kill RR10s when it takes forever, because those kind of fights are so rare they may as well not exist.

No, this is where I would reiterate that you didn't understand how tier lists work, and as you are still using this illogical "if you can win a fight against a class you are on the same tier" concept it is clear that your understanding is still severely lacking. I thought I provided a pretty thorough explanation of how tier lists work in the other thread, and why your reasoning isn't the right way to look at it, but I guess it is just much easier to dip to another one with a snarky comment rather than engage with that.

I've never said Euloggie is a bad player. In fact, arguing that Paladins are clearly a B or C tier solo class despite seeing his wins would imply quite the opposite.

I've never said that Paladins can't beat classes I would consider S-tier soloers (RR10+ SBs for example) when things go their way/they burn RAs.

I play a Reaver and the difficulties that class faces are much the same as a Paladin, although I would probably put them a tier higher than the Paladin because Leviathan is broken and the class is overall easier to perform well on. Low base stats and a solo meta filled with high magic damage assassins running purge 3-5 makes it difficult for either class to find wins with the consistency of something like a Mercenary who is much more successful in those matchups without putting in half the effort.

My problem was with what I considered to be, at the time, maliciously misleading new players with an unrelenting and unreasonable stance. Over the past day I've realized that it was just a case of simple ignorance-- both what it means when something is S-tier, and how new players interact with the game. It's unfortunate that someone would give such bad advice, apparently not realizing that the extent to which they min-max, AHK, and leverage RAs to find success both indicates that their class isn't high tier and wouldn't be realistic for an inexperienced player.

But hey, it's DAoC. There isn't a barrier to entry regarding self-awareness or objective reasoning, and if there was these forums would be a lot less interesting.

Thu 13 May 2021 3:58 PM by Steelcurtain28

Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 3:13 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 3:48 AM
This is where Majesty comes in and tells you it doesn't matter i you can kill RR10s when it takes forever, because those kind of fights are so rare they may as well not exist.

No, this is where I would reiterate that you didn't understand how tier lists work, and as you are still using this illogical "if you can win a fight against a class you are on the same tier" concept it is clear that your understanding is still severely lacking. I thought I provided a pretty thorough explanation of how tier lists work in the other thread, and why your reasoning isn't the right way to look at it, but I guess it is just much easier to dip to another one with a snarky comment rather than engage with that.

I've never said Euloggie is a bad player. In fact, arguing that Paladins are clearly a B or C tier solo class despite seeing his wins would imply quite the opposite.

I've never said that Paladins can't beat classes I would consider S-tier soloers (RR10+ SBs for example) when things go their way/they burn RAs.

I play a Reaver and the difficulties that class faces are much the same as a Paladin, although I would probably put them a tier higher than the Paladin because Leviathan is broken and the class is overall easier to perform well on. Low base stats and a solo meta filled with high magic damage assassins running purge 3-5 makes it difficult for either class to find wins with the consistency of something like a Mercenary who is much more successful in those matchups without putting in half the effort.

My problem was with what I considered to be, at the time, maliciously misleading new players with an unrelenting and unreasonable stance. Over the past day I've realized that it was just a case of simple ignorance-- both what it means when something is S-tier, and how new players interact with the game. It's unfortunate that someone would give such bad advice, apparently not realizing that the extent to which they min-max, AHK, and leverage RAs to find success both indicates that their class isn't high tier and wouldn't be realistic for an inexperienced player.

But hey, it's DAoC. There isn't a barrier to entry regarding self-awareness or objective reasoning, and if there was these forums would be a lot less interesting.

You notice how everyone disagreed with ya right? LoL but It' okay man you are allowed to your opinions and i respect that but what you say is false these fights happen ALLLLLL the time I avg over 100 solo kills a week not killing xpers. So it is what it is and you can think what you want buddy. But to say they are not good or to say they are suboptimal or to say these fights don't happen is a straight lie. Sorry for helping new players understand that you don't have to play the meta's alllllllll the time to enjoy this game. But i guess helping people disappoint you? LoL

Thu 13 May 2021 5:14 PM by Magesty

Steelcurtain28 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 3:58 PM
You notice how everyone disagreed with ya right? LoL but It' okay man you are allowed to your opinions and i respect that but what you say is false these fights happen ALLLLLL the time I avg over 100 solo kills a week not killing xpers. So it is what it is and you can think what you want buddy. But to say they are not good or to say they are suboptimal or to say these fights don't happen is a straight lie. Sorry for helping new players understand that you don't have to play the meta's alllllllll the time to enjoy this game. But i guess helping people disappoint you? LoL

If I was concerned about a cadre of poorly spoken people who can barely read "disagreeing" with me I would go through life holding some pretty shit beliefs.

You weren't helping new players understand that they can play non-meta options. You were fervently arguing that Paladins are an S-tier class, which for reasons I have outlined, is blatantly misleading. Especially in the context of providing advice to a new player.

It's OK though, you don't understand how tier lists work-- Just as you continually show you don't actually understand what I have been trying to say considering you are still implying that I think your fights "don't happen".

Do you know what suboptimal actually means? In the context of solo classes on Phoenix one could easily argue it is any class without stealth or speed let alone a visible hybrid with laughably low base stats and weapon damage.

Thu 13 May 2021 5:30 PM by Steelcurtain28

Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 5:14 PM
Steelcurtain28 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 3:58 PM
You notice how everyone disagreed with ya right? LoL but It' okay man you are allowed to your opinions and i respect that but what you say is false these fights happen ALLLLLL the time I avg over 100 solo kills a week not killing xpers. So it is what it is and you can think what you want buddy. But to say they are not good or to say they are suboptimal or to say these fights don't happen is a straight lie. Sorry for helping new players understand that you don't have to play the meta's alllllllll the time to enjoy this game. But i guess helping people disappoint you? LoL

If I was concerned about a cadre of poorly spoken people who can barely read "disagreeing" with me I would go through life holding some pretty shit beliefs.

You weren't helping new players understand that they can play non-meta options. You were fervently arguing that Paladins are an S-tier class, which for reasons I have outlined, is blatantly misleading. Especially in the context of providing advice to a new player.

It's OK though, you don't understand how tier lists work-- Just as you continually show you don't actually understand what I have been trying to say considering you are still implying that I think your fights "don't happen".

Do you know what suboptimal actually means? In the context of solo classes on Phoenix one could easily argue it is any class without stealth or speed let alone a visible hybrid with laughably low base stats and weapon damage.

Maybe you took it that way because you wanted to interrupt when I was helping a new player and say paladins were not good so in fact, you were not helping by jumping in and arguing something that you were completely wrong about. Idk you are allowed your opinion but don't get Butt hurt when someone communicates as to why you are wrong or as to why they think you are wrong. I guess people are not allowed to debate topics they instantly become a victim and think someone is attacking them when really they are giving their opinion just like you are allowed to.

Thu 13 May 2021 5:44 PM by Magesty

What?

So you still believe "S-tier" and "capable of killing things" are the same thing?

Thu 13 May 2021 7:28 PM by Steelcurtain28

Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 5:44 PM
What?

So you still believe "S-tier" and "capable of killing things" are the same thing?

I'm ending this convo with you, you are destroying my brain cells

Thu 13 May 2021 7:38 PM by paqdizzle

Steelcurtain28 wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 7:28 PM
Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 5:44 PM
What?

So you still believe "S-tier" and "capable of killing things" are the same thing?
I'm ending this convo with you, you are destroying my brain cells

When he says "Things" he meant other S tier 1v1ers lol... wait...

I will say for pally though.. the tier list would be

S- For solo 1v1 or even 1v2
then small man/utility/8v8 would be around B or C tier?

The pally is hard to put in a decisive tier.

Which is what Steelcurtain was getting at I believe. from what I've read. Not sure why people are actively trying to shut down the fact that you've literally beaten most if not all the 1v1'ers.

Can yall tell me for 1v1- what is S tier?