Issue Timeline

averok83 created this issue Fri 18 Jun 2021 1:28 PM
gruenesschaf reviewed this issue Fri 25 Jun 2021 7:55 PM
gruenesschaf changed the status of this issue from new to backlog Fri 25 Jun 2021 7:55 PM

Re: Friar Procdamage scaling is 100% str instead of dex .

Magesty wrote:
Sun 20 Jun 2021 3:18 AM
Then you adjust the proc damage down appropriately. Why would you have a stat that only affects proc damage on two styles and serves no other purpose aside from carrying capacity?

Because he doesn't care one bit about making sense, he only wants to punish non-Hibs.

Read his post history, it's nothing but "Hib sucks, nerf Albs."
7,881,878 | 4,708,489 | 3,049,781

Re: Friar Procdamage scaling is 100% str instead of dex .

Why would what stat classes get per level, a notoriously frivolous thing, matter when making a design decision?

What are these arguments even?

“The class is given an inappropriate tertiary stat on Phoenix due to a design change decades ago so it makes sense to implement two procs that use it.”

“It would be too powerful if it were based off of dex, even though Friars that get the second of the two procs will have, like, 14 more dex at 50.”

If the class doesn’t use the stat for anything else, does it make sense to force it into their kits? I’m inclined to think it does not. It feels like this is either an oversight, or simply a matter of poor design, much like disease poison duration, that will be inevitably left in place.

The only justification I think is reasonable on some level is averaging out the template costs among hybrids, but at this point in the server’s lifespan that is purely punitive rather than productive. As a retroactive change it would just be a slap in the face to already templated Friars.

Re: Friar Procdamage scaling is 100% str instead of dex .

I see no issue with it being STR.
Contrarily swapping to DEX would as pointed out above likely result in the damage/scaling being reduced- which would make the yields from Augmented x worse and tying it to DEX means you are also getting weaponskill, weapon damage, and casting speed. Another side effect would be the penalty for DEX debuffs shooting up and STR debuffs/disease being sidestepped.

Having some extra use for an inconventional stat (friar) is the opposite of poor design. Now whether it's a bug I don't know. Doubt it.

Re: Friar Procdamage scaling is 100% str instead of dex .

It seems that the mechanics related to the friar's new procs have been copied from those of the valewalker who bases all his damage on strength.
Here the doubt arises.
If the total damage dealt by the new styles is totally tied to the weapon skill, then it would be okay to tie the damage of the procs to the stats affecting the weapon skill, and for the friar it's dexterity.
Up to now, the fighting friars have always avoided strenght, so at this moment running with 0 strenght, added to the various debuffs that it can suffer in combat, would mean reducing the damage by more than 100 points per proc, almost completely nullifying the sense to have a proc.

Re: Friar Procdamage scaling is 100% str instead of dex .

Finally keep in mind, that valewalkers could cap their dex to 75 for having good casting speed but probably will never take Aug Dex at all... they will take Aug Str to increase weapon damage, and this will affect also their proc damage.
A friar to increase his dmg , should take only Aug Dex and this not affect the proc dmg at all, and i suppose noone will ever take Aug Str on a friar only to increase a proc dmg...
This sound unbalanced at all...means that friars style dps and proc dps never scale combined... in my personal opinion this is a nerf on friars.. hope is a bug.

Re: Friar Procdamage scaling is 100% str instead of dex .

Lol this is a a hilarious mistake!!!
Live made the same mistake so many years ago giving Friars strength as a rising stat and making their weapon 100% Dex based.
After this mistake it took them ages to put a sticking plaster on this problem With the dex/qui self buff!

I really think it’s funny that this one mistake (Friar Str rising stat) made in 2001 is still causing problems in 2021!

Fundamentally, any classes weapon procs should scale off the same stat as theit weapon does. Alternatively, put them all on a integer multiplier based on RR.

Re: Friar Procdamage scaling is 100% str instead of dex .

Renork wrote:
Sun 27 Jun 2021 3:17 PM
Why are people even arguing this? We all know strength does nothing for a friar, so the DD should not scale with it. Valewalker benefits from strength, reavers benefit from str/dex, thanes benefit from str. Too many old biased people playing this game.

Ohh wow.. now friars benefit from str cool!

Just like VW benefit from dex and thane benefit from dex.. I request VW/thane cast speed be moved to str, because that's the logic I see in how a game works!